[fpc-pascal] Lazarus and FPC integration

Daniel Franzini daniel.franzini at gmail.com
Sun Oct 30 12:31:31 CET 2005

On 10/29/05, David Emerson <dle3ab at angelbase.com> wrote:
> I think the time has come to integrate (the installations of) FPC and
> Lazarus more fully. I'll first use myself as an example as to why; then I'll
> present the reasons I suspect such an integration has not already taken
> place, and suggest an implementation of the integration (mostly from the
> end-user's perspective).

well, I myself as an end-user (aiming to help developing too) think that
they should not be integrated...at least not officially....but, well, the
sources and other tools are out there....ANYONE can produce such a package

As a nearly 3-year user of FPC, I have never tried Lazarus. Why not? Well,
> every time I visit the Lazarus site, I find it a little confusing, and I'm
> concerned about conflicts with my current FPC, and am not sure which version
> of Lazarus to download. Based on my own experience, I suspect that many
> potential users are often confused by the FPC and Lazarus websites and the
> download procedure.

your concern is quite normal...Lazarus ain't reached a maturity/stability
level we desired, although it is possible to produce quite useful stuff with

I suspect several reasons for the current lack of integration:
> - Historically, Lazarus was borne out of FPC. In the minds of some of the
> core developers (and many others) they remain as separate entities that
> should be installed and thought of as independant projects (though they do
> integrate well together.) This may be the most significant block to the
> integration effort!! (Come on guys, let's acknowledge the success of the
> Lazarus effort by integrating the installer!)

They are independent projects! I think everyone in this community is very
pleasant to see Lazarus growing up yet lacking several components (see the
Lazarus roadmap). Not integrating the installer doesn't mean we doesn't
like/acknowledge Lazarus.

- Some users may want to run FPC from the command-line only (or other IDE,
> e.g. SciTE or Vim) and not bother with the Lazarus IDE

yeap! I'm one of those, since I use some 3rd-party editors to write code and
I like to have fine control over the build process the tools I write.

- Some users may already have FPC installed and not want to re-download it
> when installing Lazarus


- other reasons?
> So I hope to address all of these concerns with my proposal. I have a lot
> of ideas in my mind that I'd like to propose and discuss, but for now I will
> only present what I think is by far the most important one:
> 1. The primary download, that probably 90% of visitors to the FPC site
> would download, should be a single, integrated Lazarus-and-FPC package.

well, you should notice that there are bandwidth costs and
limitations...adding such a package would increase the hit in the
server...maybe the core developers (I'm not included, I'm just an user)
would have to buy some more space/bandwidth in order to host the
package...and I think they already do quite an effort writing good code for
us to use

So, what do I mean by this? I mean that, when you go to
www.freepascal.org<http://www.freepascal.org>and hit the big "download
Free Pascal" button (link), there should be two
> options: one to download the integrated FPC/Lazarus environment, and the
> other to do something special.

I don't think that the user who wants to write some code couldn't navigate
two or more pages, download some packages and install them (also reading a
bunch of documentation helps A LOT, and there are plenty of it in the
Lazarus wiki). So i see no need of an oficial integration. But it's like I
said before: the sources and tools are out there. You can make your own
brand new fully customized packed and distribute it. If it is really good,
I'm sure people will help you with it: some can donate web space/band some
can write code.

This makes it EASY for new (and old!) users to get up and running with the
> most appropriate development environment. WE CAN STILL ACCOMODATE those
> users who want, e.g., a command-line-only compiler, or an older version,
> or to not download all the units or get documentation in a different format.
> But remember, those 10% are likelier to be the expert users. They are
> capable of navigating a few more web pages or download sites in order to
> figure out how to get just what they want, when the primary download does
> not suit them. Let the primary download serve the masses.

The primary download do serve the masses! Just because it is not integrated
doesn't mean that people don't use it or don't download it. Here in Brazil,
FPC is largely used in schools and colleges to teach beginner and advanced
stuff about computer programming, replacing Turbo Pascal (wich is paid (at
least the >= 5.5) and quite old).

What I haven't really discussed here is how, or whether, to integrate the
> websites freepascal.org <http://freepascal.org> and lazarus.freepascal.org<http://lazarus.freepascal.org>.
> I think they should be more integrated than they are, but the starting point
> is to make sure that people who navigate to either site can download what it
> is they really want -- an IDE with compiler included.

Well, I see no point integrating those. I think people can navigate in both
sites to find out what they want. And like I said, such a package would
increase the costs to the developers.

Oh yeah, okay, I lied ... one more little suggestion:
> 2. If I direct my web browser to freepascal.org <http://freepascal.org>,
> it can't find it. The site is one of the very few I encounter that requires
> me to type the www prefix. This is a pain in the butt and I bet it deters
> many potential users.

well, if you use Firefox type freepascal and hit ctrl + shift + enter

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"(...) one learns how to write code by reading code. One doesn't learn how
ride a bike by reading a book, either." (Theo de Raadt)

"Man is driven to create; I know I really love to create things. And while
I'm not good at painting, drawing, or music, I can write software."
(Yukihiro Matsumoto, a.k.a. ``Matz'')

"The best way to sell yourself is to show what you have produced, rather
than tell people what you know, what you want to do, or what degrees you
have." John Carmack
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