[fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no

[James Richters]

Jacob,  

First let me say that I am someone who has been in your position,  I have
some applications that I wrote in Turbo Pascal for DOS that I wanted to get
working on a modern PC, and I came across FreePascal.  Many times things
just don't work the way they used to and I needed quite a bit of help, and I
can say I am extremely impressed and thankful for the help I have received
from the FPC mailing list.  Nikolay has helped me tremendously and has even
modified PTCPAS to work with my application, something which I am also very
grateful for.  My current version of my old Turbo Pascal program now does
amazing things that I would have never even dreamed of back in the day.  

Also I do not use IRC at all, not just #FPC, I do not use IRC.   So I do not
know Joanna.  You asked for an opinion on your trasnscript so I read it and
I am offering you an impartial third party opinion. 

I see your point and it's frustrating when you can't make something work
that used to work on another system, but the people who have helped me have
taken the time to explain ways to work around whatever the issues are..  yes
I did need to re-write some of my code to make it work, but that was time
well spend.  It's not always easy to just change a system as complicated as
FreePascal... but in any case, the IRC is not the place to discuss such
things, and the ban message you received was to go get help in the forums.
The forums make much more sense to have a discussion of this nature because
you can't expect the development team to be on your schedule to chat with
you live about it on IRC.. IRC is a TERRIBLE place to discuss complicated
issues like getting your code to compile on FPC,  it assumes that the people
who could help you have nothing better to do than to sit there waiting to
help you.   

I read the 'Evidence' and in that format it is very hard to follow, but it
seems to me that Joanna was genuinely trying to help, and just wanted to see
an example of the code.  I think it is COMPLETELY unreasonable for you not
to send some kind of example code that illustrates what you are trying to
compile. If you are asking for someone to help you and they want information
that will help them see what you are trying to do, then YOU comply and send
them what they ask for, to not send some sample code is very rude.  I do
technical support and if one of my PAYING customers asked me to help with,
something but refused to send me an example of the problem, then I would
just tell them, sorry I can't help you if I don't have an example of this. 

You didn't need to send the whole application, that is no help at all, just
a simple snippet that illustrates what you are trying to get working.  Who
knows maybe someone could help you with some workaround to make it work..
but without seeing the code you are making it difficult for people to help
you.

Also it seemed to me that when Joanna asked you who you were on the forums,
it was so you could get help there, perhaps it was so she could continue the
discussion with you there,   I don't see any reason why you should take
offense to her asking you for your user ID on the forums.

The Ban message was:   You have been kicked from #fpc by Joanna (please go
get help in forums)     I don't see that as being offensive... it's simply
saying 'this is not the place for this, please pose your question on the
forums'  She obviously banned you so you would be forced to use the forum,
which is the correct place to discuss such things, if she did not ban you, I
guarantee you would have just logged right back in.

So instead of coming to the forums and posting your questions, you went on
this rampage about being banned.  You were the one overreacting. In my
opinion.

IRC is completely the wrong place to discuss such things, as Nikolay
mentioned, the FPC developers have other things to do that sit and chat on
IRC,  posting questions on the forums gives the people who could help you a
chance to get to it on a schedule that works for them,  it is unreasonable
for you to expect them to be available to chat with you live to help you
with your issues.

If you want help getting something to work,  you really need to provide some
sample code.   I can't understand why you would refuse to send some code..
just type out a few lines to illustrate what you are trying to compile and
explain how it used to work on this other system.  When people keep asking
for information and you refuse to provide it, you can't expect them not to
get frustrated with you.  They don't owe you a thing,  if you want their
help, you should comply with their requests.  I found it EXTREMELY rude of
you not to provide some kind of sample code.   I would NEVER post a request
for help and then refuse to comply with such a simple request.  And I must
point out that requesting code to me seemed a genuine attempt to help you
with your issue.

Apr 11 11:15:25 <Joanna>        Kroon can we see your code ?
Apr 11 11:16:24 <kroon>        Joanna, no

I find this alone a good reason to ban you...  saying No to such a simple
request from someone who was taking their valuable time to try to help you
was VERY RUDE of you.  Maybe she could have given you a warning, but I think
she just had it with you. Why should she waste her time trying to help you
when she can't see what you are working with.  I would not bother with you
either..    How can she help you when you won't even give her a sample code?
You could cut and paste 10 lines of code that show what you are trying to
compile.   If you think you have some proprietary information in the code,
the just type something that represents what you are trying to do,  and just
a snippet of the problem area.. not the whole application, that should be
obvious. You come across like someone who expects everyone to do everything
to make FPC compatible with your application, you want it done NOW, and you
don't want to even be bothered with a simple request for sample code.   That
may not me how you meant to come across, but that's the impression I got.

This is the way I see it, when you were asked for code you did not provide
it, and when you were asked for your username on the forums you did not
provide that either, I'm sure the situation could have been handled better
on both sides, but when you are the one asking for free help for a free
program that people donate many hours of time to make available, then you
should comply with their requests, which I did not find unreasonable, and
not act like making this code you have compile is something that is owed to
you.     You asked, and this is the way I see it.  I hope it gives you a
different point of view.   Part of the problem here is everyone thinks they
are right, and can't or won't try to see another point of view.

Can we put an end to all this and in my opinion you are the one who should
be apologizing, and if you want help with your program the forums are the
best place.  Starting new IRC channels is useless, the developers of FPC
aren't even necessarily in your time zone.

Sincerely, 

James