[fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no

Jacob Kroon jacob.kroon at gmail.com
Fri Apr 28 22:48:10 CEST 2023

On 4/28/23 20:39, Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-other wrote:
> On 4/26/23 21:27, Jacob Kroon via fpc-other wrote:
>> On 4/26/23 13:58, HSN via fpc-other wrote:
>>> Hi Nickolay
>>> Thanks for helping explain.
>>> I imagine that his new channel is now thriving with the list of 
>>> excellent prospects in the ban list that I provided.
>>> It’s always good to see a new irc channel get off to a good start 
>>> with some talented people on board ;)
>> ^^^
>> The comment above says it all. I understand why no fpc developer wants 
>> to be associated with #fpc.
> This is not true. The *real* reason is that none of the current FPC 
> developers has the time and dedication to moderate an IRC channel. Note 
> that there are two people from the FPC team (me and Karoly) who were 
> given moderator access by Joanna, who registered the channel. That's how 
> it became an official channel. However, unfortunately, it turned out 
> that in practice neither me, nor Karoly has the time to moderate the 
> channel, so it's de facto not moderated by the FPC team. That was the 
> reason for the decision to no longer list it as an "official" channel.
> Note that if someone from the FPC team (e.g. fpk, oliebol, Tomas Hajny, 
> etc.) wants to moderate the channel, I will give them access. However, I 
> will not remove Joanna's access, because this will make the channel 
> effectively unmoderated and we saw how well that worked in 2020 on 
> freenode, when the channel was turned into a burning trash can by trolls 
> and it was impossible to talk about Pascal at all. Back then, I had to 
> intervene and ban a few people, because the FPC moderators back then 
> weren't doing their job, due to lack of time. Now, at least, there is a 
> group of people, who talk about Pascal. In fact, I looked at the channel 
> logs. There were people (not Joanna!), who cheered after your ban. 
> Apparently people in the channel were discussing something else 
> (Pascal-related) and overall weren't very interested in talking about 
> using C-style bitwise operators in Pascal. I'm sorry to say that, but 
> when there are people, who are happy about your ban, this shows it's not 
> just Joanna, but also others, so maybe #fpc was not the best place to 
> discuss your problem anyway and it's good that you found help on the 
> mailing lists. Maybe a ban was an overreaction, but you probably 
> wouldn't have found much help on the channel anyway. To be fair, I will 
> say that there were also people, who questioned your ban, and I probably 
> wouldn't have banned you, if I were there, moderating the channel (I'm 
> online, but most of time I'm afk, just recording logs). However, there's 
> a majority of people, who are happy with Joanna's moderation and are not 
> disgruntled and eager to leave.
> Maybe #fpc-alt will become a better unofficial IRC channel? So far, I've 
> joined the #fpc-alt channel (without leaving #fpc), to support an 
> alternative channel as well, but I'm not very impressed, not only due to 
> the lack of people (only 3 people, including me), but also due to the 
> fact that there's not even a topic. I know growing a channel takes time, 
> but if you're serious about providing an alternative channel, you should 
> at least set the topic. It doesn't take that much effort. Of course, 
> there are only first impressions, and in the long term, they can turn 
> out to be wrong, and maybe #fpc-alt will grow a large community as well, 
> and will allow a more free and welcoming to newcomers environment.
> And of course, there's also #lazarus, where moderation was taken up by 
> giantm (a Lazarus developer).
> So, plenty of alternative places to talk, if you're not happy about #fpc.
>> As already mentioned, better to use the mailing list for technical 
>> questions.
> Sure! The mailing lists are great! I'm happy to hear that they are 
> working for you!
>> I think the bigger problem is that #pascal, which is more general, has 
>> *also* been hijacked by "Joanna".
> Technically speaking, she didn't "hijack" the channel. She is the 
> channel owner, by virtue of being the first person to register it on 
> this IRC network. That's how IRC works. I don't think #pascal was ever 
> an official FPC channel. In fact, I got founder access there too, just 
> by asking her nicely. Many times, this approach works much better, 
> compared to the confrontational approach. Once again, if someone wants 
> to moderate the channel, I can give them access to #pascal. The only 
> condition is, it needs to be someone trusted, from the FPC community, 
> and not some newcomer (we're talking channel operator access here).

I have uploaded all the #fpc logs I have before I got banned here:

(I am "kroon" in the logs)

In short, the conversation starts with me talking to "nickysn", Nikolay 
Nikolov, the person I am replying to in this email, and after a while he 
gets silent, and user "Joanna" joins and starts interrogating me.

I don't think anyone who reads those logs would consider me 

After reading this email that I am replying to here, and revisiting the 
#fpc logs, the only conclusion I can make is that Nikolay Nikolov == 


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