[fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
nickysn at gmail.com
Fri Apr 28 20:39:04 CEST 2023
On 4/26/23 21:27, Jacob Kroon via fpc-other wrote:
> On 4/26/23 13:58, HSN via fpc-other wrote:
>> Hi Nickolay
>> Thanks for helping explain.
>> I imagine that his new channel is now thriving with the list of
>> excellent prospects in the ban list that I provided.
>> It’s always good to see a new irc channel get off to a good start
>> with some talented people on board ;)
> The comment above says it all. I understand why no fpc developer wants
> to be associated with #fpc.
This is not true. The *real* reason is that none of the current FPC
developers has the time and dedication to moderate an IRC channel. Note
that there are two people from the FPC team (me and Karoly) who were
given moderator access by Joanna, who registered the channel. That's how
it became an official channel. However, unfortunately, it turned out
that in practice neither me, nor Karoly has the time to moderate the
channel, so it's de facto not moderated by the FPC team. That was the
reason for the decision to no longer list it as an "official" channel.
Note that if someone from the FPC team (e.g. fpk, oliebol, Tomas Hajny,
etc.) wants to moderate the channel, I will give them access. However, I
will not remove Joanna's access, because this will make the channel
effectively unmoderated and we saw how well that worked in 2020 on
freenode, when the channel was turned into a burning trash can by trolls
and it was impossible to talk about Pascal at all. Back then, I had to
intervene and ban a few people, because the FPC moderators back then
weren't doing their job, due to lack of time. Now, at least, there is a
group of people, who talk about Pascal. In fact, I looked at the channel
logs. There were people (not Joanna!), who cheered after your ban.
Apparently people in the channel were discussing something else
(Pascal-related) and overall weren't very interested in talking about
using C-style bitwise operators in Pascal. I'm sorry to say that, but
when there are people, who are happy about your ban, this shows it's not
just Joanna, but also others, so maybe #fpc was not the best place to
discuss your problem anyway and it's good that you found help on the
mailing lists. Maybe a ban was an overreaction, but you probably
wouldn't have found much help on the channel anyway. To be fair, I will
say that there were also people, who questioned your ban, and I probably
wouldn't have banned you, if I were there, moderating the channel (I'm
online, but most of time I'm afk, just recording logs). However, there's
a majority of people, who are happy with Joanna's moderation and are not
disgruntled and eager to leave.
Maybe #fpc-alt will become a better unofficial IRC channel? So far, I've
joined the #fpc-alt channel (without leaving #fpc), to support an
alternative channel as well, but I'm not very impressed, not only due to
the lack of people (only 3 people, including me), but also due to the
fact that there's not even a topic. I know growing a channel takes time,
but if you're serious about providing an alternative channel, you should
at least set the topic. It doesn't take that much effort. Of course,
there are only first impressions, and in the long term, they can turn
out to be wrong, and maybe #fpc-alt will grow a large community as well,
and will allow a more free and welcoming to newcomers environment.
And of course, there's also #lazarus, where moderation was taken up by
giantm (a Lazarus developer).
So, plenty of alternative places to talk, if you're not happy about #fpc.
> As already mentioned, better to use the mailing list for technical
Sure! The mailing lists are great! I'm happy to hear that they are
working for you!
> I think the bigger problem is that #pascal, which is more general, has
> *also* been hijacked by "Joanna".
Technically speaking, she didn't "hijack" the channel. She is the
channel owner, by virtue of being the first person to register it on
this IRC network. That's how IRC works. I don't think #pascal was ever
an official FPC channel. In fact, I got founder access there too, just
by asking her nicely. Many times, this approach works much better,
compared to the confrontational approach. Once again, if someone wants
to moderate the channel, I can give them access to #pascal. The only
condition is, it needs to be someone trusted, from the FPC community,
and not some newcomer (we're talking channel operator access here).
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