[fpc-pascal] Working on a new way to educate people about pascal

[Anthony Youngman]

On 29/12/2022 12:31, Anthony Walter via fpc-pascal wrote:
> @youngman
> 
> "I'm a database guy with maybe 30 years experience, I'm new to SQL and 
> oh my god is it an over-complicated monster ..."
> 
> Wait, what? Something doesn't make sense with what you said. You have 30 
> years of experience writing database programming code AND you are 
> just now beginning to learn about SQL?

Well, may I suggest you actually COMPREHEND Richter's point when he said 
"and only a very small part of people who use Databases use SQL".

I guess you've never heard of NoSQL databases then? As in "No SQL"?

Most of my programming has been done using databases that were what? 
maybe five years old before SQL was even thought of! Yes you can use 
SQL, but why bother when you have a much more expressive, powerful and 
comprehensible language at your finger tips.
> 
> Also, it helps a whole lot when writing SQL if you format your statements:
> 
> select
>      c.*,
>      cc.country_name
> from
>      customers c
>      join country_codes cc on cc.country_code = c.country_code;
> 
> Formatting code really helps legibility, especially when it comes to 
> SQL. That ought to be one of the first things you learn.

And again you're missing the point. I had two lines, each line with its 
own purpose (the first to say what I wanted, the second where to get it 
from). Perfectly comprehensible. Your equivalent is just DIFFERENTLY 
comprehensible.

But you didn't address my example - let me translate your six lines into 
the database access language ENGLISH - it doesn't make sense as more 
than a one-liner ...

LIST CUSTOMERS

or if you only want US customers

LIST CUSTOMERS WITH COUNTRY_CODE EQ "USA"

All the crap in your select statement - INCLUDING the join - has been 
pushed down into the *table* definition (not the view, the table).

Cheers,
Wol
> 
> @richters
> 
> Again, you are someone replying with another confusing response. You say 
> you have little to no experience with databases, then assert:
> 
> "and only a very small part of people who use Databases use SQL"
> 
> Assuming people in that sentence, you are referring to people who use 
> write programs or scripts which make use of databases, if you know very 
> little about the subject of databases on that subject, how can you 
> justify this assertion?
> 
> Moreover, I am unsure why I might heed your advice with regard to 
> effective writing. Looking back at the messages, your grammar, 
> formatting, and sentence structure belie someone with little formal 
> education on the subject.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> "Then maybe a simple form.    but threads and sockets... ok.. well I know
> what threads and sockets are because I happened to use them... but to a
> newbie... YIKES what are those?? and SQL??? What the heck is that anyway?
> I'm not talking about a newbie.. I mean.. myself... with over 40 years of
> programming experience, mostly with Pascal,  What the heck is it and why
> would I need to monitor it?"
> 
> Your first sentence has no verb. Your profuse usage of strings of 
> punctuation is both non-standard and inconsistent. It's difficult to 
> tell whether you meant to have a pause, where a comma would be 
> appropriate, or whether an idea has ended and a single period should be 
> used.
> 
> Grammar is important to writing effectively for a number of reasons. 
> First and foremost, grammar is the set of rules that govern the way 
> words are used in a language. It helps to ensure that people can 
> communicate effectively and understand each other. Without a common set 
> of grammatical rules, it would be much harder for people to convey their 
> thoughts and ideas clearly and for others to understand them. I would 
> hope a programmer with 40 years of experience would recognize this. Good 
> grammar is essential for written communication, whether it's a business 
> letter, a school essay, or an email to a friend. Poor grammar can make 
> writing difficult to understand and can convey a lack of attention to 
> detail or professionalism.
> 
> Finally, grammar is important for language learning. Learning grammar 
> helps language learners understand how the language works and how to use 
> it correctly. It can also help them understand the structure of 
> sentences and how to build them, which is important for speaking and 
> writing in the language.
> 
> I suggest you either brush up on these subjects or refrain from scolding 
> people on subjects with which you have no practical experience.
> 
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