[fpc-devel] Pascal Standard, and what we can do.

Den cyraid at gmail.com
Mon Jul 20 04:01:25 CEST 2015

     I am quite aware of ISO Pascal.. Though, to be fair it wasn't well 
known and the tools for adding 'rfc' style proposals must not have been 
great? I've proposed a few new properties to the CSS documents standard, 
and you know what? It felt great. They're discussing it now and I can 
track it.  If it succeeds, it will be implemented.  It's things like 
that, having a group effort with the documents and the actual 'technical 
engineers' work on it.  You won't have to worry about big heads and 
businesses taking over the document, as it will be an open effort, just 
like FPC is.  When someone looks at a roadmap, that's the 'output' 
people look to and see on what to expect in the future.  What we'd be 
doing is discussing proposals and such to make Free Pascal a standard.  
Who knows? Maybe Delphi would start trying to implement our standards?

     Is there any such online software anyone is aware of, that is an 
easy 'proposal'/'rfc' style interface? Where you can make suggestions, 
comments and votes on each proposal? If there is enough votes on a 
particular proposal someone could see the potential and add it without 
fear of it not being accepted.

- Dennis Fehr

On 2015-07-19 04:42 PM, Ralf Quint wrote:
> On 7/19/2015 2:03 AM, Jonas Maebe wrote:
>> Den wrote:
>>> Just like ECMAScript,
>>> C++, PHP, most languages now have a 'standards' document behind it.
>>> That's their *roadmap*. Their *leadership*. Design it and the
>>> *community* will show *support*.
>> ISO Pascal and ISO Extended Pascal were like that in the early 90s:
>> 1) there was an official ISO standard and standards committee for it
>> 2) there were a number commercial compilers supporting it such as HP 
>> Pascal and IBM's compiler for its System/370
>> 3) later on (in 1996) a GCC-based implementation arrived for it (the 
>> equivalent of the LLVM of the moment)
>> And still almost no one uses ISO/Extended Pascal anymore. Why? 
>> Possibly because the de facto Pascal standards had already become 
>> Think Pascal on the Mac and Turbo Pascal on the PC by then, and none 
>> of those programmers wanted to rewrite all of their code (although 
>> Think Pascal was a bit closer to ISO Pascal). Or maybe because in 
>> general, many people just preferred those language dialects for one 
>> reason or another. In any case, introducing one new standard to rule 
>> them all seldom (if ever) works (and you can bet someone will be 
>> unable to resist to add a link to the related xkcd comic).
>> Standards do not magically make a language more popular. They only 
>> work if they follow from a desire of an entire community to design 
>> one and to adhere to it. "Design it and the community will show 
>> support" is exactly the opposite of what happens in practice.
> ISO Pascal was a born a dead horse. Borland, itself taking pieces of 
> USCD Pascal (Units, Strings) became the "de-facto"standard and that is 
> what the initial goal was when Florian started the compiler way back 
> when. Later, Free Pascal followed what was set by Delphi, making the 
> most sense.
> Now today, I do not necessarily agree with the direction Embarcadero 
> heading these days with Delphi and most importantly (for me), I do not 
> agree with all those attempts to add "features" of other languages to 
> Free Pascal. I appreciate the efforts of the folks involved in Free 
> Pascal for a long time, as this provides me with the opportunity to 
> keep working in the programming language/environment that for me makes 
> the most sense and that I am used to for 38 years. And I honestly 
> loath to see that people argue that there should be new language 
> constructs and such, just because it is what more popular programming 
> languages provide. I am not in to participate in a popularity contest, 
> I am trying to get work done...
> Ralf
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