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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Sorry, but there has been so much
nonsense in this thread, I just had to add my 2c as well.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/15/2024 4:07 PM, Rainer Stratmann
via fpc-pascal wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2117168.oxAcqbJhdy@debian1-3">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">At the Lazarus Congress in Cologne in October 2024, it ended up being very
interesting. An important question came up.
Why are no new users coming to Lazarus/Freepascal?
Why do we find it so difficult?
How can we get new, younger users to come to us?
The same questions came up over a year ago at a Freepascal/Lazarus meeting in
Backnang.
I have some answers:
- The official Freepascal website doesn't look like the project is very lively. </pre>
</blockquote>
An absolute non-factor. Yes, the "Latest News" seems to be dated,
but then I would prefer people involved in the project work on
compiler related issues rather than on web sites.<br>
The latest FPC announcement is now 3 years ago, but then the overall
release cycle is much slower than on a lot of other projects, but by
and large, I could consider this a good thing....<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2117168.oxAcqbJhdy@debian1-3">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">- Lazarus looks very complicated with its many windows. And it is also
relatively complicated to understand and use. There are too many options that
are too nested.</pre>
</blockquote>
Well, what is so complicated about it? Of course, you need to know
what you are doing. Maybe some windows could be hidden until they
might be used (like Watches, Evaluate/modify, or debugger), and they
are easily activated from the Window menu. But if you are really
programming, it actually make sense. <br>
Is Lazarus "perfect"? Probably not, but IMHO, it is light years
better and easier to use like abominations like Visual Studio (Code,
yes, I know they are not the same) or any of that Eclipse based
stuff. And definitely FAR more lightweight than any of those. <br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2117168.oxAcqbJhdy@debian1-3">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">
- Crosscompiling: The compiler file name is hidden in Tools - Settings instead
of in the project settings. I found this out after some time. Since it was
nowhere to be found in the project settings I first thought it might be hard-
coded!
</pre>
</blockquote>
That doesn't make any sense! Yeah, cross-compiling could be made it
bit more obvious, but then in a lot of the "alternatives", you can't
cross-compile at all. And then, if you properly design your
software, this isn't a task that you do a couple of dozen times and
hour...<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2117168.oxAcqbJhdy@debian1-3">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">- Linux: All relevant files (executable files, configuration files, source code,
etc.) are scattered all over the Linux system. This is very complicated again.
If Lazarus/Freepascal were a Linux system program it would make sense. But it
is NOT a Linux system program. The chance that it will be used by several
users on a multi-user system is close to zero.</pre>
</blockquote>
non-issue IMHP<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2117168.oxAcqbJhdy@debian1-3">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">
- Fpcupdeluxe: A good idea. But it doesn't work. I have tried to install an
AVR crosscompiler on a Linux system. Fatal: Can't find unit Infodrwf used by
Project1. And ‘Project1’ does not use any unit at all.
</pre>
</blockquote>
don't care, never used it in all the years that I am using FPC
(going back when it was still called FPK) and Lazarus.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2117168.oxAcqbJhdy@debian1-3">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">
- For a new installation of Lazarus: The most important quick start icons have
to be configured again at the bottom of the source code window. So that fast
and smooth work is possible. Instead of placing them like this from the start.
The many confusing windows I have already mentioned above.</pre>
</blockquote>
You completely lost me on this one.... 😕
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2117168.oxAcqbJhdy@debian1-3">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">As good as Freepascal is. The situation described above is a brake pad and
sooner or later leads to a dead end.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Maybe you need to look at your overall approach to (application)
programming, not as FPC/Lazarus being another Python (or whatever is
the rad programming language de jour)<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2117168.oxAcqbJhdy@debian1-3">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">
My tip is to put all the required files in one directory. This also makes it
easier to install an installation on the different systems. Only one ZIP file is
then required. And you can even install it without internet access. </pre>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't see the general problem here. By and large, FPC (and
Lazarus) is installed rather quickly. What I however miss is an
option to transfer a (general) configuration from one system to
another, specially between different OS, as I do most of my work
on Windows 1[0,1] but some of my application also need to be
tested and worked on on Linux or macOS. This cross-platform
capability is IMHO one of the reasons why you couldn't just "put
everything into one directory". The directory structure, including
permissions, is simply different for each of them.</p>
<p>If I would have some serious complains, it would be that in the
last few years at least some of the developers have paid too much
attention to include all those (supposedly) fancy new paradigms
instead of the core of programming in Pascal. Even Object Pascal,
though IMHO not every little thing needs to be put into
objects/classes when there really isn't any gain from it. Some
times, commonly used functions might be clearer and thus easier to
understand and maintain written in procedural form.<br>
<br>
As far as Lazarus is concerned, the only thing that just keeps
bugging me is that there is no ability to "just compile" a file
that is currently active in the editor, to test it for syntactical
correctness/typos, without having to create a separate test
project each and every time or recompiling it in the context of a
larger application. This could be one thing that could make it
easier for newbies to Pascal to get started, specially when at
first dealing with non-GUI programs.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2117168.oxAcqbJhdy@debian1-3">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">
Translated with <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.deepl.com">www.deepl.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
Ist Dein Problem möglicherweise dass Deine Englischkenntinisse nicht
die Besten sind und Du deshalb einige der Strukturen nicht
verstehst?<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Ralf<br>
</p>
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