<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Op 16/10/2024 om 02:54 schreef DougC
via fpc-pascal:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:19292d172f4.d5ee7610371718.7211011818481260275@moosemail.net">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div
style="font-family: Calibri, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<blockquote
style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 7px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div>
<div>---- On Tue, 15 Oct 2024 19:07:58 -0400 <b>Rainer
Stratmann via fpc-pascal <<a target="_blank"
href="mailto:fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org</a>></b>
wrote ---<br>
</div>
<div data-zbluepencil-ignore="true" class="zmail_extra">
<div>At the Lazarus Congress in Cologne in October 2024,
it ended up being very <br>
</div>
<blockquote id="blockquote_zmail" style="margin: 0px;">
<div>
<div>interesting. An important question came up.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Why are no new users coming to
Lazarus/Freepascal?<br>
</div>
<div>Why do we find it so difficult?<br>
</div>
<div>How can we get new, younger users to come to us?<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>The most fundamental reason more people are not adopting
Pascal as a programming language is because in the mid-1990's
Pascal lost out to Java as the initial language that was
taught in university settings. Because that was the last place
Pascal was widely used, it quickly became obscure. Also, C was
always thought to be the pinnacle of achievement. That is, if
you could program in C you were considered elite. That
continues today, although those promoting Rust are making a
commendable and stalwart effort to have it accepted into the
Linux kernel.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I agree roughly with you. It is simply a case of what brings in
initial users. It used to be TP and Delphiers for either platform
or cost but that is decreasing. We don't have big patron or other
mechanism that substitutes.</p>
<p>All the navelgazing on what could be wrong with the presentation
or initial user experience don't make up for those initial
numbers. That mostly influences the conversion rate of initial
impressions to users that try it, but we simply don't have the
same number of initial impressions. And those initial impressions
are generated by major vendors or linux distributors or whatever
adopting a language.</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:19292d172f4.d5ee7610371718.7211011818481260275@moosemail.net">
<div
style="font-family: Calibri, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Today, Python is probably the most widely used programming
language. Its appeal is based on ease of learning and relaxed
rules that increase ease of use. While it is as severely
flawed language from a strict design viewpoint, it has taken
over.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Keep in mind that before Python became data scientist's darling,
many distributions installed it by default for over a decade to
replace default distro engineering scripting in Perl (the
scripting darling before Python). It is not just features,
exposure is also a factor.<br>
</p>
<p></p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:19292d172f4.d5ee7610371718.7211011818481260275@moosemail.net">
<div
style="font-family: Calibri, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, faced with this situation, what can be done? Short of a
massive and expensive marketing effort, not much, except to
remove obvious attributes that hinder adoption. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Not always. Keep in mind that entice an initial user to stick
around a bit longer is only one stage. Core motivation to start
and persist with anything beyond the first install, and all other
stages till you are a core developer ;-) (and each stage has a
progressively smaller conversion factor).</p>
<p>Overly focusing on the initial user experience is a luxury from
projects with enormous initial impressions, where every effort for
the initial user leads to masses of extra new converts, that will
sooner or later permeate all aspects of the project. Either by
paying the bills or taking part in development)<br>
</p>
<p>But we are not in that situation, and must keep an eye on all
users, not just focus on the initial user conversion. Making sure
the few initial converts stick is as important as getting more
initial impressions.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:19292d172f4.d5ee7610371718.7211011818481260275@moosemail.net">
<div
style="font-family: Calibri, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div>One such attribute is the messy, cluttered look of the IDE.
An IDE redesign with a cleaner, simpler, and visually
appealing presentation would help enormously. It looks like
that is what is being proposed here. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I think the docked IDE by default will have its advantages.
Redesign is probably not an option.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:19292d172f4.d5ee7610371718.7211011818481260275@moosemail.net">
<div
style="font-family: Calibri, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div>I have always found that the self-contained nature of
Pascal/Delphi executables is a big advantage over other
language systems. Just copy the file and run it, even on a
system that has never seen a Pascal/Delphi executable before.
If we could do that with the IDE/compiler it would be magic!
The install process is far from that goal right now.<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
And the longevity of those binaries, and quick install. Copies
that are installed standalone can be copied with components and all.
Here at work we use Delphi for the main delivered applications, but
lazarus for everything else because of the limited number of Delphi
installs.<br>
</body>
</html>