[fpc-other] Git & SVN

[Nikolay Nikolov]

On 05/25/2017 01:44 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> On 2017-05-24 21:21, Marco van de Voort wrote:
>> Even a limited change is already a massive operation, let's keep it
>> managable.
>
> So how large is the FPC team really? I'm talking about active 
> developers on a day-to-day basis who have commit access to Trunk.
>
> Oh wait, I can answer that very accurately myself... using git.
>
> $ cd /data/devel/fpc-3.1.1/src
> [src (master)]$ git shortlog -s -n --since=4.months
>    191  Michael Van Canneyt
>    147  Mattias Gaertner
>    140  nickysn
>     83  svenbarth
>     73  Florian Klaempfl
>     62  pierre
>     52  Joost van der Sluis
>     39  maciej
>     30  karoly
>     26  Marco van de Voort
>     23  Jonas Maebe
>     22  yury
>      7  lacak
>      5  marcus
>      3  Sergei Gorelkin
>      2  hajny
>
> So that's 16 developers - a nice size, but also not a large team (say 
> compared to the KDE project that moved from SubVersion to Git, or LLVM 
> seeing as that was mentioned earlier). The amount of commits are also 
> not huge - so they most likely have a day job. ;-)
>
> And the two developers with the most commits (by a large margin) work 
> primarily in the RTL and FCL. That's development work like any other 
> project I have worked on. Nothing special or "rocket science" about 
> that (sorry Florian).
>
> As for the 3rd person "nickysn"... I see he/she actually worked on the 
> compiler/* tree. How do I know this?
>
>   $ git log --name-only --oneline --since=2.months --author=nickysn
Actually, that's me and I'm surprised I'm topping the list. Maybe that's 
because I'm still using plain old subversion, instead of git-svn, which 
forces me to commit my changes, instead of keeping them in a half-baked 
state, in a local branch of a local repository. :) Maybe it's also worth 
mentioning that I actually dislike git. Previously, I didn't care, but 
now I contribute to some other projects, which use git and I'm 
constantly annoyed by the extra complexity and having the source control 
system stand in my way and preventing me from doing actual work.
>
> Randomly picking some other authors, it seems most work is primarily 
> in the RTL and FCL. A few small exceptions like Sven and Florian who 
> mostly work in the compiler tree.
>
> So this definitely doesn't convince me that compiler development is so 
> different to other projects. And definitely doesn't rule out that Git 
> couldn't work, or that an improved workflow couldn't be applied 
> (freeing up time in the long run).
The problem is: the current FPC development model is working fine. 
There's nothing wrong with it. You're pushing git as a solution to a 
problem that doesn't exist and promising we'll see the light, as soon as 
we apply your solution.
>
> But I get in now. You guys are set in your ways - good or bad, and 
> currently not willing to change. So I'll leave it at that.
Of course, we are. There's nothing wrong with that. We have a solution 
that works and that's fine. Why do you want to persuade people to use 
git so much? Does it bother you so much that people are using a tool 
that you aren't using?

Here's an analogy of how the git bible-thumping looks to a subversion user:

Are you driving a car? I don't know whether you do or not, but let's 
suppose you are, for the sake of argument. Why don't you switch to a 
truck? It has many advantages over the car - everything you need to 
carry with a car, you can carry with the truck. Sure, it takes more time 
to learn how to drive it and to acquire license for it, but it's a 
worthy skill, since it'll make you a better driver. And as soon as you 
need to move a lot of stuff, you'll love the fact that you learned how 
to drive it and bought it. And sooner or later, it happens to everyone 
to have to move a lot of stuff. So, I don't understand why people are 
still using cars. They make no sense - they are too small and therefore, 
useless. I simply can't see why anyone would want something more 
lightweight. But you're living in a big, crowded city, with lots of 
small streets and you're not really carrying all that much with your 
car, you're only using it to go to work, so you think you don't need a 
truck? But these advantages only exist in the minds of the car owners - 
you can drive a truck in the city as well in more than 99% of the 
streets, where you can drive your car. And in traffic jams, it's only 
going to be 1-2% slower. And, if you're driving in an area, where it's 
not appropriate to drive a truck, but you can drive a car, this is a 
sure signal that you're doing driving wrong. If you have to drive small 
city streets it's better to leave your truck at home and walk instead. 
Cities are for walking, not for driving. But you like the option of 
driving 3 or 4 people? That's yet another misconception car drivers 
often have, which is a sure symptom they've never owned a truck and 
their mind works in an car-focused, truck-unaware, unenlightened way. In 
fact, you can easily fit a lot more people in the truck. You just put 
benches in the cargo area.

I hope you get the idea ;-)

Nikolay